A Digital Printing Network
Problems with Crop Marks
Well I got the RS set up and after a couple of hours of trials and tribulations I was able to get 20 large decals laminated before I ran out of laminate. I think after a few more runs I will get the hang of lamination.
Now to the problem at hand. The first print I reloaded to cut on the versacamm found the crop marks, but the cutting was about a half of a letter off (1 ruined), loaded another print moving it like a 1/8" lateraly toward the print head, all crop marks were found and it cut great (just needed a little more force). I adjusted the force up to 110 and spent the next 2 soild hours trying to get the versacamm to find the crop marks, load media- crop mark error- no crop marks found, adjust media try again same results over and over again. Tried turning off the versacamm and closed versa works, restarted the computer & versaworks to no avail. Finally got one print to cut and by the time it reached the final cut it was a full letter off. I have done about 10 print then cut after hand laminating prior to this and not had any problems. I am using oracal 210 laminate and the crop marks are visable. What is going on here? I am using marks on the media clamps to align and when the versacamm starts processing it advances the marks in front of the cut strip. The only change I made after the first successful cut was the force. Now I am wore out and my brain is fried and 24 of these prints need to go out tomorrow afternoon. I am confident that I am within an 1/8" on my lateral placement of the media, so I don't understand why the cut would be off if the machine is reading the crop marks, no do I understand why the versacamm cannot read the crop marks that appear to be very visable through the laminate sheet after sheet.
HELP!!!!!!!!
Thanks
Larry
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Kevin Hirata on -
Larry, Sorry to hear you're having problems. Here's my 2 cents.
How large are these decals you're printing/cutting? If they are large decals, and you're ganging them on one job, the weight of the vinyl could affect accuracy of the cut. I found this to be especially true when cutting oval shaped decals. You may also want to clean your encoder strip as that has been a problem for me in the past whenever my cuts have been severely off the mark.
With regard to the cropmarks, did you go into VW and make any changes to your job in between printing and cutting? I had a similar experience with my VC not being able to find the cropmarks. Come to find out I had made a change to the job (I can't remember the change now), and that threw everything off. VW viewed the print job and the cut job as two separate jobs, and didn't connect the two. Hope this makes sense.
So, my suggestion would be to clean the encoder strip, then run your job again. Try to limit the amount of vinyl used to around 30". Do a print only with cropmarks, then go back and do a cut only.
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Permalink Reply by CYW on -
Not that I have any experience at all...............as you know.
But I'm also very sorry this job didn't go very smoothly.
I have no idea if this information will be helpful, but I read about quite a few instances while broswing around warning AGAINST centering your design. Some folks were saying that if you center while printing, sometimes when you go back to register your crop marks and cut, the rollers get moved.
They were saying that NOT CENTERING from the get-go helped.
Now I really don't understand the theory behind this since I would think if the VC finds the crop marks, everything should be relative....but who knows?
Just thought I'd throw this info out, though.
Hang in there, Larry.
I'm pulling for you....pulling really, really hard.
Diane
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Permalink Reply by irving donaldson on -
Larry - take into account what Kevin stated and let me add this. I do not have the time right now to do all the explanations so any part you need further explained - just ask. The steps I am telling work 100% of the time and are what I show folks when I do their installs.
Ensure you do the following tests on the material you are going to use - Bi - directional printing, calibration, print- cut adjustment and crop-cut adjustment. The last two are two different cuts and usually the crop cuts are usually off.
With those tests done and machine now fine tuned:
- Perform a sheet cut
- Do not center the job
- Print job only with crop marks
- Allow extra material to run off - rear crop marks to bottom of platen
- perform a sheet cut
- Laminate - ensure you laminate the rear portion past the rear cropmarks
- reverse load the paper so that the extra rear area is to the front
- now do your test cuts to get the proper force - no one can tell you the amount as each machine is different and the mil size of the laminate will cause the variant
- With the proper force set - reload the job back to the original way
- Place front crop marks over the cutting strip (IMPORTANT)
- run the job Cut Only
Ensure you do not change the job at all - do not go out and get media width in between the print and cut portions - Do not move the media clamps or pressure rollers - Do not trim the job - front or sides - Do Not Center the Job
My thinking is you changed something to the dimensions and the crop cut adjustments are off
My two cents
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Permalink Reply by Larry Turner on -
First off thanks for all the information. The only change that was made was we went back into the file and added contour cut to two places that were not there before (inside a capital B) no other changes to my knowledge. Like I said it cut one of three sheets just fine, then the crop mark issue. Kevin the encoder strip was cleaned earlier in the week when I did a complete clean. The decals are only 32" long and there is enough material on the back side so length should not be a problem
Irving- I will try your suggestions, have not done any of that yet.The job is not centered and I have marks on the media clamps to line up with. Come to think of it when I loaded the media I did a get media width, becuase my wife had quick print in the machine and I had to move the clamps. Did this screw things up????????
Will keep you'll posted.
Thanks
Larry
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Permalink Reply by irving donaldson on
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Ok Larry the 'get the media' widths that I mentioned was in between the print and the cut flow. Once you start the job you have to finish the job - so if you reload the job - it is now a different job. The media on the rear purpose is to satisfy the media sensor. I just tell you to do your cuts there for if you test cut over your crop marks - you just created scrap material. (I have successfully filled it in with a sharpie - but I am not telling). If you get in the habit of doing the print - laminate - cut workflow in the proper order it will give you continual success, oppose to guessing each time. I have seen where the pinch rollers were moved so it throws the job off. Try not to change anything except adding the laminate and changing the force to cut through the laminate. Most folks do not understand what the crop cut adjust does and never set it. The machine will cut fine on the other jobs but when the optical eye comes out to read the crop marks - if that cut was never adjusted and it worked - then you were lucky. Just as if you do a simple bi-directional and get your 1 bar to line up - do the detail test and see about all of the other heads. You can really dial your machine in to give you great results each time. In two years I never cleaned my encoder strip so does that mean my machine is brand new or have I been luck. Follow the steps I listed and let me know - they will work each time.
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Permalink Reply by Larry Turner on
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Irving thanks for the reply. Now the pressing question- do I have to do this job all over or will your steps above solve the problem and I can use what is printed and laminated????????
Thanks
Larry
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Permalink Reply by irving donaldson on
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To me there is no way to use my steps from a job already done - now with that said
I personally would try it - since I have nothing to lose but time - but what I tell folks is not what I do - I am an experimentor, a testor, a push the edge person but keep that seperate from the instructions I give - I will tell you this. if you start the job over and follow my steps - I know one thing - it will work each time - and that is not guessing.
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Permalink Reply by Butch on
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Irv, I noticed in one of Larry's replies that he went back in and added a cut contour to a letter. Would this not mean that the job was a new job then ? Any changes at all would mean sending a new job would it not?
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Permalink Reply by irving donaldson on
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That is correct - changing anything causing the job to have to perform a new RIP would not line up. It is for that reason you do not even center the design. Centering is relative to the distance and if that changes then centering changes.
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Permalink Reply by Larry Turner on
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Again thanks to all for the replies. Out of 20 decals 4 cut correctly the other 16 are trash. Tomorrow I will redo them- print with crop marks, hot laminate, then cut with no one using the versacamm inbetween. I even talked to our tech person where we bought the machine and tried resetting the base point on each print and only 4 came out--go figure.
Irving one quick question- if I have done Bi - directional printing, calibration, print- cut adjustment and crop-cut adjustment do I need to do these again with a new job or just print only, laminate, then cut only to get this right?
Again thanks to all for you help and support. One day I will get this figured out.
Larry
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Permalink Reply by irving donaldson on
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Larry you by your experience now have it figured out. You will only need to do all those test just one time. (of course if you change media that is significantly different you will need to do those test for that one - if you change with enough variance, then you can use the preset option.) Keep your lengths to about 36 inches and you will keep within the distance variance. One less problem to work through. So run those test and go for it (print - laminate - cut) - What I normally do is print two rows and check to see if all is well - if so then I fire for effect. If you follow this as a rule - you will save yourself resources and be able to make your minor adjustments. - Let me know how you make our.
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Permalink Reply by chris kegley on
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Irv,i've been reading through this post,and printing 36" lengths for contour cutting caught my attention..i recently purchased a sp300i (new) and been hoping i do not regret it having owned several other roland printers in the past,can the 300i accuratetly contour cut a 8' long piece of laminated decal or is this asking to much from it?Is there any special steps i should take to make it work.
Thanks Chris
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